It's not 'Masters of Orion'

[Skyfire]

starts around Day 17, Space. Semi-open; please ask before joining if your name isn't already mentioned.

Skyfire regards the blank screen of the console before him for a while as he plans his next project. The navigation software and database is, if not finished, at least under control. They have a reasonable chance of winding up in the vicinity of Cybertron, if it still exists, and even of finding refueling stops along the way... if they exist.

He is the starship and the navigator--but his maps had been nine million years out of date. Stars and clusters have moved in that time, moved quite a ways... and not together, or in the same directions or with the same velocities. It took Skyfire and Perceptor months of work back on Gillanan to re-map the modern starscape and build new deep-space navigational maps.

Still, his old maps aren't totally useless. From a scientific point-of-view, they are very useful, as they gave the science division a nine-million-year old snapshot to study stellar evolution from, once they matched up the stars by spectral fingerprints. At first, Skyfire thought that was all they were good for, as the notes about civilizations and life-bearing planets are horribly, hopelessly obsolete. If even the long-lived Cybertronians changed so much in that time, and a civilization of technologically-inclined sentients evolved on that third planet in that time, who can say what happened to all the other worlds?

As it turned out, Kup could. Skyfire had a sudden insight one day, remembering that Kup had roamed around out there back when Skyfire and Starscream explored together--and he'd never taken a few million year nap that Skyfire had heard. Kup would know what places were like now--and he did. Kup spent patient hours with Skyfire, filling in his notes on what systems might be worth stopping at for trade or frontier refueling, and what systems to avoid like the plagues their inhabitants carried. There are huge gaps, of course, but between Gillanan III and 'Where Cybertron Should Be', there are at least some 'known quantities'. For values of 'known' that mean 'assuming this reality is like our own for this system here'.

Finding out who is still out there--and some of it is pretty unpleasant, with 'Quintessons' being at the top of the list--and the sheer quantity and worse, quality of unknowns awoke an unease in Skyfire. His unease only deepened as launch date drew nearer--unease at taking a crew of relative greenhorns into the unknown deeps of space. Skyfire touches a key and brings up the personnel roster. Not all greenhorns; that is arrogance on his part. Definitely not Kup, and possibly not the 'Bots who explored Earth. Not Rodimus Prime, either. Botanica and Rattrap also have exploration experience.

There are enough people who have never been off Cybertron, though, and space has a way of handing out deadly surprises when you least expect it. There are two ways of dealing with that--tossing people in green and hoping they learn from their mistakes before they end up permanently offline--or train them to deal with the unexpected and the alien. Skyfire favors the latter by far.

"..So you see, I'd like to see a training program established, the sooner, the better. I'm not quite sure where to start; my own training was On-the-Job; we knew nothing about what was out there back then, and had to make it up as we went along. My build line didn't have a high survival rate; those of us who survived, trained the next bunch and our own escorts. They survived a lot better." Skyfire looks across the small room at the others.

Skyfre stands and begins to pace back and forth, unconsciously ducking his head every time he passes near the doorway. "There's others here with experience, that have seen more worlds than just Cybertron and Earth. Botanica and Rattrap, among others. Do you know if the Maximals had any kind of formal training program for explorers? Perhaps we could use that as a basis to start with. I'm also itching to put that wonderful simulation room of Perceptor's to work. We never had anything like that! I could collate any information we have on aliens and their worlds and use them to create full simulations--nothing like experiencing a thing to learn it."

---
Perceptor & Kup invoked by permission

[Kup]

Kup nods and gives occasional noises of acknowledgment as Skyfire goes on about the minute details of organized space exploration. Unfortunately, those nods and noises finish a bit after Skyfire stops talking and asks his question, making it a bit obvious that perhaps the old man is having a 'senior' moment (or had just let his attention wander).

Finally he blinks and looks around shiftily. "Oh, uhm, oh..." cover, cover... "Haven't talk to 'em about it, really, but I think most of 'em just wake up on the planet they're sent to already knowin' what they're s'posed to know to do their jobs." Good save! Kup rubs the back of his neck and adds, "Seems kinda fishy, if you ask me."

He shakes his head. "'Sides, what's wrong with 'learn as you go'? It was good enough for me after I got booted from Cybertron!" He shrugs. "Sure, we can do what we can to get the kids to learn from our mistakes, but in the end, they're gonna insist on making their own, anyway. That's the way of young folks."

"Not really sure if I trust that 'holothing' anyway," Kup adds stubbornly, crossing his arms as he speaks, but he doesn't explain why.

(It's because he knows where it came from.)

OOC: What is the location, anyway, besides in a small room near a doorway? Lounge or meeting room?

[Skyfire]

They were in a small meeting room, one with a couple of workstations. Skyfire frowns slightly. "As I pointed out, 'learning as you go' resulted in a lot of good mechs never coming home. Not only did we lose good people and friends, most of them we never found out what happened, so we couldn't even learn from their mistakes."

"You're tougher than most, Kup, and you weren't... inexperienced when you got 'booted from Cybertron', as you put it," Skyfire says. "Even so, I bet you had your share of close calls--very close calls. Am I right?"

He sighs. "You're right, they'll make their own mistakes--but we can at least teach them how to avoid the obvious hazards, how to prepare for the unexpected, how to manage risk. Tricky business, that. On the one hand, recklessness can get you killed; on the other hand, timidity won't get the job done." Skyfire gestures with one hand as he talks, turning it back and forth to emphasize his points.

Skyfire sits down again, abruptly and props his chin up with his hand. "Kup, I worry about them, and I don't want to lose any friends because I didn't do what I could to prepare them. The two of us had so many close calls out there that would have destroyed one of us alone... "

"I trust the holo-simulations to do what I program them to do. Or what Perceptor programs into them. I hope you trust Perceptor; he was all over its circuitry and put in the appropriate safety interlocks and limiters. He explained the theory behind it to me; it's a fascinating bit of technology. I'm surprised no one thought of it before," Skyfire muses.

[Shanodin]

"Close calls are a hazard of the profession, Skyfire, and there is no way to properly prepare any individual or group for the hazards of the unknown," says Botanica, from her position in the doorway. She'd arrived just in time to here Skyfire's counter to Kup.

"I apologize for my lateness, but my relief was detained a bit." Oddly enough, the plantformer is in her robot mode at the moment. She moves swiftly to take a seat.

"I can understand your concerns, Skyfire, and I agree that training scenarios are important. For both organic and inorganic planets, and I even agree that such training should be mandatory, at least for some." Her voice is authoritative, her expression determined. "But really, Skyfire, what you have just described- 'how to avoid the obvious hazards, how to prepare for the unexpected, how to manage risk'- are all elements of common sense and experiences as much as programming and learned behavior, and putting them through thousands of training scenarios will not prepare them."

She clasps her hands in front of her on the desk, and her voice now grows a touch hard. "Because fighting something you know is a simulation, no matter how real, is nothing like fighting the real thing. If it were, then so many of us with peacetime armies would not have found our worlds so easily routed by their respective foes."

[Kup]

"Y'know," Kup says, rubbing his chin thoughtfully. "I coulda sworn I already started a training program with the youngin's before we even left the planet, and I coulda sworn I never said anything about not training them. But apparently what I really said was, 'Give me a lecture, please.'" He grunts. "Guess I'll have to get my processor to vocalizer circuits checked here soon."

He gestures towards Botanica. "What she said about sims verses real, with an added helping of, 'Yeah, we're still going to use them,' just in case you're feeling another lecture going on."

"And y'know..." now Kup props his feet up on the table in front of him, "funny thing is, I do trust Perceptor with my life, but that don't mean I trust everything he builds or adapts not to backfire. What with having seen it happen plenty times and all."

Now, he leans back, rocking back on his chair so that it looks like it might fall over at any moment, his legs still propped up. "I'm also not sure where you get your info that I was experienced when I was tossed out on my own, neither, unless you equate experience smashing 'Cons and acting as a bar bouncer."

Kup smirks. "And no, that don't mean I'm unwilling to train 'em, either."

[Skyfire]

Skyfire sighs and hides his face in his hands for a few moments. "There's a reason they didn't pick me to do grant presentations," he mutters quietly, and then looks at the two of them again.

"Acknowledged, Botanica, Kup." In spite of his acknowledgment, Skyfire looks faintly surprised at Botanica.

"Botanica, are you saying that 'common sense' is common among Maximals?" He looks at Kup for support or confirmation or something. "Perhaps my viewpoint is skewed--most people I knew came from a thoroughly civilian population. Most of us were more like Clipper and Long Haul than you or Springer." He smiled wryly at Kup. "That, and I worked very closely with Starscream for years, which may have biased my view of the average combat-capable mech's fund of 'common sense'. I apologize for my assumptions."

"However," he spreads his hands and looks apologetic, "Botanica, I disagree that training scenarios will not help them. Learning the habits of how to respond to an emergency, how to think in a crisis, helps keep one from locking circuits when suddenly thrown into a real crisis. I'm not talking about learning the routine responses for standard emergencies--we already have that," Skyfire glances at Kup. "I'm talking about helping people learn to assess a new, possibly dangerous situation, and quickly find a workable resolution... "

"And I'm going off into lecture mode again, aren't I?" Skyfire sighs. "Let me take that from the top. Botanica, part of what I want to ask you is how Maximal explorers were prepared or trained, and if you can translate your experience and skills into training for the rest of us. Kup, what I am specifically looking for from you is to pick your memory banks some more for your experiences with aliens and strange worlds. I want to set up a database of alien and space simulations and information, and I'd like you two to encourage familiarization training, if that's not asking too much."

"I'd also like to pick over the memory banks of everyone else on this ship for off-Cybertron experience. I think we'll find more than a few surprises and useful information," Skyfire says hopefully.

He smiles at Kup. "You at least knew how to fight, and knew untrustworthy, dangerous characters when you met them." His smile is particularly wry for a moment, then returns to normal. "You knew how to survive the hazards of war, at least. The truth is, it's not people like Springer I'm the most worried about--it's people like Holi and Scrapper."

He frowns, seriously this time, at Kup at his comments on Perceptor's work. "Do you mistrust both of us? I understand the technology behind it almost as well as he does, and I vouch for his work on the system." From his tone, Skyfire does not appreciate the slight on Perceptor's knowledge and skills.

[Shanodin]

Botanic can't help but blink slowly as Skyfire first says he doesn't want to lecture, and then still does that. She likes her fellow explorer and scientist well enough, but his idealism and seeming insistence on appearing the moral superior is quite grating.

Once he's done- and quickly, because she is certain Kup might snap at Skyfire's last conclusions regarding trust- she attempts to answer his questions and counters as best she is able.

"We have not the huge population that you might think, Skyfire, and exploring for new resources has been a very vital part of the Maximal's existence for quite some time now. We downsized because the planet could not support us; it was only a matter of time before things got worse. So, yes, 'common sense' is much more 'common' then you seem to think among us. And I think you are not giving our current companions enough credit in that area as well. Are you forgetting that almost all our company is made up of beings pulled from war-time?"

She rests her chin in her hand. "The Micromasters even have come from such. They are still innocent in many ways, but I would not discount their abilities, nor place them in the same column as Scrapper. He is just dull-witted, and I am sorry, but I doubt any amount of training is going to help him think critically. He should be made to participate, but I am vehemently opposed to him being part of any exploration and scouting team."

"As for my training, it was not so involved. Some base training on procedures and means, and we were filtered through a schooling of sorts, for not all have the right temperament for such work, and even fewer have the capability to lead an expedition."

"I will certainly lend what expertise I can, but if you want a more varied sampling of skills and hazards, you should talk with Rattrap. He has been around the block a few more times than myself."

[Kup]

Kup seems to start dosing lightly as some of the debate goes on. Since no one's actually claimed that training scenarios won't help at all and that they're not going to do them, his attention starts to drift.

Then something catches his attention, and he blinks, then snorts, then frowns as he concentrates on something, possibly remembering. After that, he peers up at Skyfire.

"Y'know... I coulda sworn from your record that you were a geological scientist, not an engineer, and, well, given that you're not an engineer, if you do know the technology almost as well as he does, well then, yeah, I sure as hell don't trust it!"

He stands up. "Now, if you wanna continue to hear that to mean that I don't trust either of you as a person, then... fair enough. If that's the case, I don't see much point in continuing this conversation." With that, he turns and starts to leave.

[Skyfire]

Skyfire looks crestfallen at Kup's comment, and holds out his hands in a conciliatory gesture. "Kup! That's not what I meant at all! Please..."

What's wrong with him lately? Everything seemed so clear when he was turning the problem over in his mind while working on the navigation system, but now he's making a real muddle of it. Skyfire feels.. off-balance. Like part of him is missing, the snarky, ruthlessly intelligent half that could tear holes in any idea that wasn't 100% until he got it right. He's off-balance, and it's making him feel defensive, argumentative. Skyfire sighed again, his wings drooping.

He nods at Botanica. "Botanica--that's an excellent suggestion. I had thought about calling Rattrap into join us, but wanted to run my ideas past you and Kup first."

[Shanodin]

"It may not be what you meant, Skyfire, but it is what you said," Botanica says, tone soft and neutral. "Considering Kup's beliefs and attitude, that he had already said he would trust Perceptor with his life, I am not surprised he is taking offense." Perhaps Kup has left the room by now, perhaps not. Either way, Botanica feels she needs to try and explain to Skyfire that they are not against him, or his idea, but instead want him to look at the problem from a more realistic and less idealistic angle.

But first there is something which needs to be clarified.

"I do think you are laboring under some misconceptions in regard to the simulation technology, and perhaps that might help clear up the matter from your perspective. It is not a creation of Perceptor's, nor his sole project. Xaaron gave Engineering the rough designs, and I, myself, was one of the first to look over them. As my time was primarily utilized with the building of the biosphere, Perceptor took head on the project. But we all contributed to the construction. As you are not one of our engineering primaries, and thus your participation in the project may have been limited, it is a perfectly plausible mistake for you to have made."

"I am also quite certain that Perceptor would be most upset at the idea of claiming credit, even tacitly for something he did not actually design."

She settle back in her chair. "Nor can I fault Kup for his caution. It is a tricky thing, creating a false reality. There is always the danger of thing becoming too real."

"Also, you might contact Claw Jaw as well. It would not hurt to have underwater scenarios as well. For that matter, scenarios based on the foes unique to each reality could not hurt. Who knows who our counters have had bolster their ranks in these many weeks?"

[Kup]

Kup hasn't made it out of the door. Really, he's going to see those kids trained regardless of the results of the meeting today, but despite the veteran's casual attitude, he does put enough importance on the subject to pause when told to wait. He turns, then leans against the wall adjacent the door.

"Underwater, other realities, giant sized scale, sky cities - not all the dangers are on 'uncivilized' worlds." Kup shakes his head. "We're not going to have time hitting everything. You can spend a lifetime trying to prepare for everything and still miss something, and we want these kids to be able to spend time doing stuff besides training, too." He pauses, rubbing his chin, to consider. "Rather than trying to cover everything they might run into, we'll need to focus onna small number of the common things, plus add in some scenario rando-" He perks up and looks between Botanica and Skyfire. "Hey, that reminds me. Just how much randomization do those things allow? Rather than racking our brains and wearing them out trying to expose 'em to everything they might get exposed to, let's just hit a few basics, put everything else in a pot, mix it up, and let the computer put it together different each time."

Kup doesn't trust the solid-light room. That doesn't mean he's unwilling to take advantage of it.

[Skyfire]

Skyfire nods, somewhat chastened. "Good points, all. Perceptor did not claim the design as his own--I just assumed it came from a time or a reality different than mine, but was familiar, well-established technology to whoever provided it. Botanica, do you think there are psychological issues with using the technology too much? I confess I did not think of that--I was looking at the technical and physical hazards of the simulator."

"Kup, that sounds good. It would help with training people to handle the unexpected. Should just be a matter of programming some random branches and initial scenarios into the simulator--like one of those video games." Skyfire smiles again. "I wouldn't be surprised if someone did build a video game out of it."

"Botanica, do you have Claw-jaw's frequency? I'm not sure I've met him except in passing."

Skyfire doodles for a moment on a datapad and adds, "I wanted to just start throwing together an alien information database, and present it to you two as the start of this project but I keep running into the problem that all my information is so badly out-of-date. I can't even provide good starting points, unless you want to know where to look for multi-million year old ruins..."

[Shanodin]

Botanica shrugs, "You have to understand, I come from a time when we used cryogenics and stasis pods regularly, for not just for healing but travel and teaching. There have been problems where mechs have refused to leave them, so caught up in their own minds are they."

"So, yes, I do think one needs to be careful with such a realistic virtual world. And, really, it does not matter how many time we reviewed the nuts and bolts of it. We can not predict everything. I do not think we have too much to worry over, but I also think we should not be so blase about it's use, either."

She stretches, arching her back a bit. She's a bit stiff. Probably should snag some rest when done with this.

"I can call Claw Jaw," she adds, nodding. And then does just that.

[Kup]

Kup pushes himself away from the wall, than plops back down in his seat and sets his feet up on the table.

"I just work under the assumption that if there's a way a tech can go wrong, sooner or later it will." He leans back in his chair and places his hands behind his head, smirking.

"So far it's an assumption that's served me pretty well."

"Anyways, if we're worrying about training for specific things, then yeah, your info being out of date is a problem when setting up the programs, Skyfire. The thing is, we're not. Because there's no way we're gonna be able to train the kids for every specific little scenario, species, or whatever they're gonna run into. All the specifics might have changed, but the universe as a whole contains pretty much the same sorts of things now that it always did, so when it comes to setting what needs to be covered, your information's just as useful as anyone else's."

He pauses. "Except maybe about Earth. We're going to need to get specific about that one. Earth gets way too important to our species in too many realities. We're best off if we just assume we'll have to go there here, too. Hell, I think it's on the way."

[Skyfire]

"Perhaps a time limit on scenarios, and a cumulative limit on sim time vs real time might help with that?" Skyfire offers. "Psychology isn't really my strong suit; like I said, I hadn't even considered that as a danger."

Skyfire nods at Kup. "Most failure modes I can see for the sim room would just leave the participants in a dark, empty room. The only really nasty one I can think of is if the virtualization interface with your circuitry didn't disconnect when it should... and that would only be serious if no external assistance was available to shut it down, and the scenario didn't have a near-term conclusion."

Skyfire isn't prophesying, is he?

"You're right, some situations and dangers never change--like fire aboard ship, or doing extra-vehicular excursions in the radiation zone of a bright star..." He trails off, voice growing distant as he thinks of the many things that can go wrong out here.