Emirate Xaaron-3
Rookie
Ate you alive since you were a child/That's when the monster first appeared in you
Posts: 162
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Post by Emirate Xaaron-3 on Feb 19, 2008 20:49:36 GMT -5
Emirate Xaaron holds up a hand and protests, "I don't know your Decepticons. I am simply assuming they are bad because you people have said so. It's a very poor assumption on my part."
He shrugs. "Call me a sophist. I still think definitions that depend on another definition are a poor idea. And – before you ask – I? I am nothing."
I am the days seen through I'm final entropy
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Skyfire
Major
I'm a scientist, not a....
Posts: 891
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Post by Skyfire on Feb 19, 2008 21:50:25 GMT -5
Skyfire considers the Other Xaaron thoughtfully. "Well, we're assuming your Autobots are bad based on yours and presumably your Swerve's say-so. I am quite aware of that, and I'm sure our Emirate Xaaron is as well."
" 'Trust, but verify'. In an uncertain universe, it's a useful operating strategy."
"I might concede that definitions that depend on a group of commonly known traits that are not necessarily common or known are bad epistemology," Skyfire said agreeably. Perceptor wasn't the only one who can talk like he downloaded a dictionary; Skyfire was just more aware of his audience when he spoke.
"You are hardly 'nothing', Emirate Xaaron. You exist, you think, you communicate, you act. I suspect you are an interesting conversational partner." Skyfire smiled.
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Swerve-3
Rookie
Maintain the Light
Posts: 169
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Post by Swerve-3 on Feb 19, 2008 22:52:43 GMT -5
Swerve isn't rushing. At least not by his own standards, but life always did go at a faster pace on Velocitron. He isn't exactly dallying, either, concerned by the lack of a radio response. He'll just have to look for himself and trust Mirage to keep up with him. His devotion probably seems downright ludicrous – it certainly netted enough laughs from his Autobots on a handful of occasions – but it is what it is.
He doesn't think Emirate Xaaron would have come indoors, or been dragged indoors without saying something… he could've been knocked offline first, Swerve supposes… but anyone hauling him past the executive floor would've been heard. No sign of him in repair and quarters are silent, as is the storage floor. Outside it is, and once the constable is in the open, it's no difficult task to spot the bulk of Skyfire, and the smaller gold and pink forms near his feet. Well, no-one is screaming and Swerve can't see any obvious intimidation… nor does this seem like very many people. He was too slow, after all.
He makes his way toward the group nonetheless, air pleasant, expression mild. Maybe even just a touch cheerful, in a vaguely jittery way. Anxious or not, at least his efforts toward good will are genuine.
"Emirate Xaaron, sir," greets the constable, still a few strides away, "making friends?" He nods to the other two Autobots. "Hello again, Arcee. Hello, Skyfire."
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Arcee
Minor
Token Girl-Bot
Posts: 330
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Post by Arcee on Feb 19, 2008 23:15:36 GMT -5
Arcee doesn't need to use her comm to tell her that this is the other Swerve, what she does need, however, is a dictionary to translate whatever it was Skyfire just said. He's just as bad as Perceptor, honestly. At least Ultra Magnus had the fortitude to tell the scientist to shut up from time to time.
She gives Swerve a small nod of greeting before saying, "Whew. All this is way over my head."
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Post by Mirage on Feb 19, 2008 23:43:57 GMT -5
Mirage actually had no trouble following along behind Swerve, though he did hang back enough so that it didn't appear that he was chasing the constable through the halls. Which, while perhaps a pleasing image to some, would not be exactly professional, and would require quite a lot of energon to have been consumed by both parties.
He nods at the group. He's here to play guard, not to debate philosophy. Though he really would like to know more about his other-self.
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Emirate Xaaron-3
Rookie
Ate you alive since you were a child/That's when the monster first appeared in you
Posts: 162
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Post by Emirate Xaaron-3 on Feb 21, 2008 19:31:10 GMT -5
Emirate Xaaron can keep up with what Skyfire's saying, although it makes him feel ill at ease. Erudition and compassion do not walk hand and hand.
Emirate Xaaron mutters, "I could prove that my Autobots are maladjusted for polite society if I trusted any of you." He doesn't, but all it would take is one look at the hacked up transformation relays inside of him. He hasn't been butchered or touched by an incompetent medic, no. His damages were all quite deliberately done. It is because of those old scars that he'd rather break the fingers of most medics than let them touch him.
At Swerve's arrival, Emirate Xaaron visibly brightens! His island of sanity in a mad universe! However, he cringes at what Swerve asks of him and mumbles, "Not exactly." Hurting people's heads, maybe. Making friends? No. Why does the thought of disappointing Swerve distress him so?
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Skyfire
Major
I'm a scientist, not a....
Posts: 891
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Post by Skyfire on Feb 21, 2008 19:48:18 GMT -5
"Even if you don't come to trust us, I suspect their true nature will show through quickly. The Decepticons had to work hard to hide their real natures from me for a few weeks, and even then, they slipped up. The important thing is that you've given us enough warning not to be unsuspecting until it's too late," Skyfire said.
"Hello, Swerve!" Skyfire greeted him cheerily; he couldn't help it. Skyfire liked people, and he enjoyed meeting new people. The newcomer looked much like the Swerve Skyfire had met, but he carried himself very differently. He also did weird things (for Swerve) like greet people and call Emirate Xaaron "sir".
"We've been having some casual philosophical discussion; I'm afraid we ran off a few people who didn't have much taste for spirited debate." Skyfire grins. "Reminds me of back home on Cybertron, arguing the applications of organic evolutionary theory to Cybertronian life. The talk.evolution channel debates could get pretty vicious."
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Swerve-3
Rookie
Maintain the Light
Posts: 169
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Post by Swerve-3 on Feb 22, 2008 6:12:14 GMT -5
Disappointed? Oh, no, Swerve isn't disappointed at all by Emirate Xaaron's answer. He almost expected it; his question was… well, it wasn't an outright attempt to mislead anyone – there was genuine hope behind it, at least – but it wasn't exactly a reasonable question, either, considering the situation. Neither of them is really making friends here.
"Not to worry, sir," the constable murmurs reassuringly once he's near enough for solicitude's sake. "I think we'll have a few more passes yet. I trust you've been treated well?" Just because he saw nothing incriminating doesn't mean something couldn't have happened in his absence.
To Skyfire, Swerve turns an apologetic look.
"I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Arcee here," he says. "Sounds like a bit much for me." Then again, he's basically a backwater cop.
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Arcee
Minor
Token Girl-Bot
Posts: 330
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Post by Arcee on Feb 22, 2008 16:21:48 GMT -5
"The Decepticons tricked Wheelie too," Arcee notes. "Though that does make me wonder how much of what we do is choice and how much is programming. He didn't even know he was an Autobot until we told him."
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Post by Mirage on Feb 22, 2008 16:54:19 GMT -5
Mirage give Arcee one of his signature raised eyebrow looks, "Of course it's a choice. Transformers in your reality may have been built trade goods or whatnot, but somewhere along the line you developed or evolved into beings with free will. You may have been built an Autobot, Arcee, but you have the ability to choose not to be one at any time."
"You can not define the world according to 'Autobot' or 'Decepticon' standards, as red or purple. You define a person by their actions and how such actions relate within your own personal worldview; you define a situation by your own prejudices. Wearing the Autobrand does not make you a good person, nor does taking up the Deceptibadge make you evil. Everything is relative to one's own personal world view."
Yes, Mirage has effectively been sidetracked. The conversation has turned relevant to his interests.
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Emirate Xaaron-3
Rookie
Ate you alive since you were a child/That's when the monster first appeared in you
Posts: 162
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Post by Emirate Xaaron-3 on Feb 23, 2008 16:31:31 GMT -5
Emirate Xaaron snorts and starts, "Don't tell me you had that 'naturally occurring gears and pulley' tripe in your-" he cuts himself off. He is not here to be argumentative. Argumentative weedy little tanklings can get shoved into bulkheads for their trouble.
He replies to Swerve, "Quite fine, thank you." He even ventures a small joke. "The conversation is not so terrible as to be painful." Concerned, he inquires, "How are you, Swerve?"
There is Mirage! Better than not knowing here he is, Emirate Xaaron supposes. He ventures, "It does raise the question of whether or not free will even exists. If one knew all the variables, could one know the future? Is this a deterministic universe?"
He doesn't think so. Emirate Xaaron tends to believe that it is naturally impossible to know all the variables, that randomness will creep in somewhere.
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Skyfire
Major
I'm a scientist, not a....
Posts: 891
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Post by Skyfire on Feb 23, 2008 21:16:54 GMT -5
"That's partially true, Mirage--though I'd get into the whole moral relativism argument again to explain that 'partially'--but you and Arcee are ignoring the effects of acculturation, which is neither original programming nor rational choice."
"The Golden Age culture I remember strongly discouraged violent, anti-social behavior, as do the Autobots; the Decepticon's culture seems to be a martial one, encouraging violence and aggression. Someone who did not go along with the traits of the culture they are part of would rapidly find themselves forced to the fringes, outcast as it were. Mechs either associate with people like themselves--'choosing' Autobot or Decepticon, or change their behavior to suit the people they are associating with. Actually, I suspect they do a bit of both."
"Though I do agree with Mirage that it's best to judge people as individuals--however, it's evident people will go by badge color when deciding who to shoot at and whom to assist."
Skyfire sighed at the Other Xaaron's chopped-off comment. "Oh yes, we had that 'naturally occurring gears and pulley' tripe! What's really bad is the Technogenesists seized on our findings on alien organic evolution and tried to apply it to technogenesis, in spite of our repeated explanations that It Doesn't Work That Way. Organic evolution requires organic reproduction. Worse, because the Technogenesists jumped on organic evolutionary theory as 'scientific proof' of their point-of-view, the Sigma-genesists felt obliged to reject organic evolutionary theory, even though it has nothing to do with Cybertronian creation and development. The Xenogenesists thought we might have something to explain the Builders, though."
"Since then I've been told that our race was created by another race as a line of semi-sentient robot servants, though the origins of Cybertron itself are still a bit vague. The Xenogenesists were right!" Skyfire grinned mischieviously.
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Swerve-3
Rookie
Maintain the Light
Posts: 169
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Post by Swerve-3 on Feb 25, 2008 0:52:32 GMT -5
"Just fine," Swerve answers Emirate Xaaron. And yes, he brought a Mirage along; this one's pretty well-behaved, though. "I've had less awkward conversations, but at least it was pleasant and they were actually rather understanding, all things told." They offered him a chair and let him leave when he asked; he isn't quite used to the courtesy or being given right of way, but he won't complain about it, either.
He goes quiet as the discussion wends on, glancing across a matter that strikes him dearly close to his spark. He's different now than he was a scant thousand years ago, but if what this Skyfire says is typical of his fellows, these Autobots would never accept him as he was then. Will they even as he is should they learn what sort of person he used to be? He can only assume so far that the answer is a resoundingly deflating "no".
…Perhaps it's best he say nothing, then, and simply listen.
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Arcee
Minor
Token Girl-Bot
Posts: 330
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Post by Arcee on Feb 25, 2008 15:43:51 GMT -5
"I don't know, Mirage," Arcee says. "I think what we're built has to have something fairly major to do with it. There's scant history of defectors to either side, and plenty of history of the Decepticons having to brainwash Autobots to get more troops."
Granted, the Aerialbots were rather wishy-washy on that point originally, save for Silverbolt, but they were basically infants then.
"And I'm not so sure I could stop being an Autobot even if I wanted to. It might be in yours, but I know it's not in my programming to abandon the cause. The thought's never even entered my mind."
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Post by Mirage on Feb 27, 2008 12:31:36 GMT -5
"A civilization is defined by its culture or lack of it. And even the prosperous, peaceful Cybertron of my time was not a Golden Utopia of non-violence. If it were, Megatron would not have found the support he needed, as the gladiator games would not have existed."
Mirage shook his head, as if chasing away memories.
"The war has barely begun for me, when compared to some of you, and I have seen many switch allegiances with the wind. The Grimlock I know was a renowned gladiator fighter, a rival and occasional partner of Starscream's in the games, and he chose Megatron's badge originally. And your Jetfire counterpart, Skyfire, still wore a Decepticon emblem at the time of my displacement."
"You were created to be a warrior, Arcee. You are an explorer, a scientist, Skyfire, but I'd wager you're well equipped to deal with any dangers you might come across. Do you not take some pleasure in performing according to function, in besting opponents, in surviving where another may not?"
Mirage looks at Emirate Xaaron, "And perhaps free will does not exist and we are only performing a dance to amuse some higher power. Our current situation might even lend credence to such a theory. But until all ability to choose is taken from me, I prefer to be optimistic."
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