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Post by Perceptor on Oct 26, 2009 15:13:39 GMT -5
Perceptor offers a wan smile. "I would be a poor scientist if I refused to learn from my observations, would I not?" He tilts his own beaker in a toasting gesture and takes another long sip. "However, if such a 'support group' serves it's function... then gladly, I suppose."
He listens attentively to Springer's explanation, head tilted consideringly. He nods, swirling one fingertip in his beaker, absently toying with his energon. "I understand. And, for what it is worth, I agree. To abandon one who had had such a positive impact upon so many would have been disasterously demoralizing to everyone involved."
"To have left him behind, to have never known, I think, would have been far worse than rescuing him only to relegate him to such a prison. You did not know, when you had planned for his rescue, the full extent of the damage he had suffered. That was only determined after his retrieval. But had you not managed the rescue... his loss would forever haunt you."
"You may think that it does so already, however, you must consider this, Springer: he is Kup. Kup is a fighter. He is strong. And history does not cease merely because we are not present to experience it. Though you are not there to see as much for yourself, there is no guarantee that nothing can be done for him, or that he may not yet heal."
"Also consider this. You, in your reality, lead a special force, correct? The... 'Wreckers', if I recall correctly? Would they have exercised patience and control if you had not sent themnyourself? Not that I mean to impugn the caliber of your mechs, however... the nomenclature of 'Wreckers' does not call to mind a surplus of... ah... patience with idleness."
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Post by Springer on Nov 2, 2009 22:53:57 GMT -5
Springer nods faintly during Perceptor's input, offering a bit of a grin at the response to the support group comment.
Once the scientist falls quiet, he puts forth a rather sheepish smile. "Yeah, this mission wasn't really suited for them. Sure, we can wait as needed for an ambush, but telling them to take up a mission without weapons really isn't up their alley."
A pause, caused by a long drink and a shiver.
"I know Kup's tough, and yeah, not knowing would've been worse. I understand these things, but the price still haunts you, y'know?" Springer wanders to a nearby chair, taking a seat, hunching over with elbows rested on his knees. "I wonder how the Primes handle it..."
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 5, 2009 21:54:01 GMT -5
"I do not know," Perceptor replies, coming around the workbench so that he can lean against it, still sipping his high grade, and not be so rude as to turn his back on Springer. "But I expect that their ability to do so is a portion of what set them apart as a Prime."
He looks away suddenly, turning his attention down to his feet, hands cupped around his cup. Springer talks of "the price". it's something that Perceptor can understand all too well.
"I could have ended the war in my reality, you know," he offers in a soft, almost conversational voice. "On two seperate occassions, I had an opportunity to cripple the Decepticons." He's never actually sat down and said these things out loud. Confessed them. He isn't certain, even now, if he is hoping for Springer's understanding... or his condemnation.
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Post by Springer on Nov 8, 2009 19:27:09 GMT -5
Springer nods, taking the moment to lean back in his chair, a relaxing slouch. This is followed by a drink, that comes down very, very slowly after Perceptor speaks of having the chance to end the fighting.
His cup doesn't move, and his head tilts, and an optic-ridge raises. "Howso, Perceptor?"
He can't understand or condemn without details, after all.
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 8, 2009 20:37:07 GMT -5
Perceptor does not want to answer. He does not want to have to force himself to actually say the words, but he has set the avalanche in motion. The only thing for it is to ride it out to the horrible end.
He doesn't manage to force himself to look up, though, and continues speaking down towards his feet, softly, but steadily.
"Megatron had loccated an extremely powerful, but equally unstable, power source from a crashed Cybertronian ship. The Heart of Cybertron. He had it placed within his structures, providing him insurmountable strength."
"I had devised a method to reduce or enlarge an object's structure exponentially, and so, myself, Brawn, and Bumblebee utilized this machine to shrink ourselves to a sufficiently small enough size to enter Megatron's structures. It was hoped... it was hoped that we could locate the Heart and retrieve it before it became unstable enough to detonate and destroy a significant portion of Earth."
He curls his fingers more tightly around his cup, and his head hangs a fraction lower. "During our search... we located Megatron's central processor. Brawn wished to destroy it. I... prevented him."
"Megatron had been in flight at the time, and damaging his central processing unit would have rendered him incapable of maintaining safe flight," he explains quickly, but even to himself, it sounds more like an excuse than an explanation. "I... I told Brawn that... that an impact resulting from such a loss of flight capabilities would destabalize the Heart enough to detonate it."
"I was not certain that such was the case. It was merely a possibility. One that I presented as an absolute." Lied, in other words. Because it didn't seem... right to kill Megatron so... sneakily. Without warning. So ruthlessly.
At least, it hadn't then. Before Autobot City.
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Post by Springer on Nov 10, 2009 22:54:20 GMT -5
Springer adjusts a bit in his chair, leaning slightly on one arm, and holding his high-grade in the other. His expression remains rather neutral through the story, and at the end, he takes a long drink.
"...well, it was still a possibility that it would have exploded, right? And even if it didn't, the impact could have killed you three, at that small size, I figure. Depending on how high up Megatron was."
Another drink, this one finishing off the glass. "And doing so wouldn't have been the honorable way of doing it... And to tie it in to something you said earlier - if you had done that, Megatron wouldn't have killed Prime and caused Rodimus to come about."
"Don't think I could say I could resist the temptation that much, though..."
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 10, 2009 23:06:19 GMT -5
"It was," Perceptor agrees softly. "Xaaron would likely believe that the loss of three to eliminate Megatron would have well been worth it. He is not the only one who might hold such a sentiment."
It is, however, comforting to hear Perceptor's primary - and still unvoiced - concern brought up by Springer. It wouldn't have been honorable. It wouldn't have been right. It's a small comfort, though.
"Were the deaths of everyone at Megatron's hand when he attacked Autobot City then 'honorable'? Was my honor worth their loss?" he whispers, dragging his gaze up finally to meet Springer's. It isn't a rhetorical question; he wants to know. He wants to know what Springer thinks.
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Post by Springer on Nov 12, 2009 2:31:37 GMT -5
Springer stares back, jaw clenched as he considers what Perceptor has asked him.
"If they went down, fighting the good fight, then I'd call it honorable - we all know what we're getting into when we agree to take part in this war. Until the war comes to some kind of an end... We don't know what each day brings." He sighs, looking down into his cup. "Of course, that brings us back to the "what-ifs. What if you had blown Megatron's CPU out? Sure, your comrades would not have died, and Megatron would have been destroyed. However, Starscream would be out there still, to clutch up the reins of leadership. Behind every Decepticon leader is some scheming sunuvaglitch to pick up where the first guy left off. Then more lives could have been lost in different ways. Or the Decepticons may have torn themselves apart. There's no way to know for sure."
Springer looks up, spreading his arms out. "We can sit here, what-iffing until the cows come home. And I don't know the situation with each Autobot that your reality lost that day - I don't know if they went down in an ambush, or going servo-to-servo with a 'Con. However, from what I've gathered, you guys were there to help protect Earth, right? Then their deaths weren't in vain - Autobot City was not totally annihilated, Megatron went down, and Rodimus Prime came to be because of all of it, and did a lot of good stuff to help bring the way to close-to-ending, from what you said."
Springer leans back in his chair again, half bemused as he considers what all he just said. "...short version - given how things turned out, then I would say so, to help stop the 'Cons from taking Earth or any other number of planets. It might not be a pretty concept, but the lives of the many are worth more than the few sometimes. I know it's not fair, but that's just how life is..." he says, standing up and going to refill his glass. He doesn't make optic-contact with Perceptor, perhaps a bit uneasy about how the scientist is going to respond to that last statement.
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 12, 2009 19:38:18 GMT -5
The lives of the many... It is a concept which Perceptor is becomming more and more accquainted with, despite his resistance. As much as he may wish it otherwise, there is not always the luxury of "the lives of all".
Rarely is that an option, it seems.
As muvh as Springer's words bring Perceptor a small measure of comfort, they also stir just as much doubt.
"The lives of the many..." he murmurs very softly, turning his gaze back down into his cup. He does not ask "what if" this time. This confession is greater than any mere "what if".
"There was another occassion. Not only Megatron, but every Decepticon on Earth... The whole of the Nemesis. I merely needed to allow them all to die. I was not afraid to die with them. No one else would have, had I made that choice. I simply..."
He swallows a bitter little breath of a laugh and shakes his head. "I would not have been able to face Optimus had I chosen that path. I chose honor. I chose honor, when I would not have even been capable of facing Optimus had I chosen otherwise... and they died."
"They could have been safe... except... by my hand."
He wants nothing more than to keep his gaze pinned to his hands, his cup, safely hidden from what he is certain will be a recriminating glare of disbelief. He cannot; like a lodestone, he draws his attention back to Springer, waiting for... for judgement.
"I feel as if I threw their lives away, Springer. And I am still uncertain... uncertain if I chould choose... otherwise."
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Post by Springer on Nov 15, 2009 14:27:07 GMT -5
Springer turns his attention directly on Perceptor, a bit perplexed. "...what? What sort of situation were you in, that gave you an opportunity to do such a thing?" So yes, Springer does have disbelief, but not what from Perceptor was expecting. "Letting them die, that...I suppose it all depends on what, and what your orders were... Fill me in here."
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 15, 2009 14:52:16 GMT -5
Not a situation that had apparently had a similar occurrence in Springer's reality, then. Or, perhaps it just had not been common knowledge. Even in his own reality, very few ever knew all the details about that incident, only that Perceptor had been "forced" to cooperate when he'd been held prisoner.
"I had no orders," he replies, hunching over his cup again after he takes a long drink. The energon burns as it goes down, the high octane stinging in the way potent fuels do. "I had been abducted upon Megatron's orders."
"The Decepticons had encountered a pathogen that had had a voracious appetite for Cybertronian metals. Cosmic Rust. Megatron had become infected first, but the infection had quickly spread throughout their base to others. Megatron ordered my abduction, and then demanded that I devise a cure for the affliction."
"I... could have merely stood by, accepted the infection myself, and allowed them all to perish. It would have only been a matter of time before every individual within the Nemesis would have contracted it. Better yet, I could have stalled, sabotaged the base's main systems to keep everyone trapped and contained, and developed some false compound that would have hastened the process, or at least not provided any treatment."
"None of them would have been able to prevent me from restricting them to the Nemesis. I could have contained them all. I merely... I merely had to observe them deactivating before my own systems failure. It would have been simple. Cruel... horrendous... but immanently efficient. I merely had to watch them die."
"But... I couldn't. Because I already had the cure... and Optimus... I cannot believe that he would have approved had I done... anything other than what I did."
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Post by Springer on Nov 22, 2009 0:44:32 GMT -5
Springer stares Perceptor down, a slight frown on his face.
"No...not if your Optimus is anything like mine. Real upstanding guy, believes in fighting fair and all that."
The triplechanger sets his glass on a table, leaning back in his chair. "This one... Hmn. If you did just let them die, yourself included... Who knows what would have happened. Honestly, I'm not sure what I would have done, were I in your position. Take down a whole outpost of powerful Decepticons...or help them."
Springer leans an elbow on the arm of his chair, resting his chin on his hand, looking rather thoughtful. "I'd say helping them is what separates us from them, but... Then that attack happened later on."
A heavy sigh, and Springer pinches the bridge of his nose. "...war is hell, Perceptor. You'll do a lot of things you regret. And I'm not gonna sit here and say it's all okay, because...well, I've got no place playing moral judge. The best you can do is hang in there, I suppose." A thin smile crosses his face. "Easier to do if you got others that'll help pull you out of it, though."
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 22, 2009 18:14:31 GMT -5
Perceptor nods miserably at Springer's summation of Prime's character, avoiding meeting the Wrecker's gaze as he finishes off his energon in one large gulp. It's the "what ifs" that hurt so much. Would it have made a difference in the long run, against Unicron, if he had done things differently?
Or is Fate a stronger force than he realizes?
"I would like to think that," he whispers, almost as if to himself. "The humans... they have a saying. That evil done in the name of good is still evil. I would like to believe that." To know that, as painful as the ultimate outcome had been, that he'd chosen the Auotobot way. Ratchet and Wheeljack - and Prime - are still dead, however. And Prowl, Windcharger, Ironhide... so many, many others, but he had not seen their living corpses rise from the swamp, shambling horrors that they'd been, as he had Ratchet and Wheeljack and Prime. Perceptor shudders, and almost misses Springer's final comment.
Surprised, he looks up, meeting Springer's gaze, and tries to stifle the flare of hope that flickers up within. Springer cannot... actually be offering...
Ratchet and Wheeljack, and perhaps Skyfire to some limited extent, had been Perceptor's only true friends; he has always been, for the most part, otherwise tolerated by the others for use usefulness. Springer, like Ultra Magnus, has never been known for his patience with Perceptor's... mannerisms.
But this isn't his Springer.
This is not his Springer, but there is no real reason to believe that Perceptor is not reading more into the Wrecker's words than Springer really means. It is hard to keep the wary hope out of his expression as he nods, though. "Ratchet and Wheeljack... used to do so," he admits softly. "As... as your Kup did for you?"
Springer isn't much of a goofball inventor or a cheerful medic, but Perceptor isn't much of a wily old warhorse. That doesn't mean that... perhaps... maybe... they can't fit those empty places in each other's lives?
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Post by Springer on Nov 22, 2009 22:58:13 GMT -5
Springer raises his eyebrows a bit, then does a half-shrug. "I wonder what some of the others here would think of that. Then again, I like not having dents in my face, so I'm not about to go find out." A sigh. "I'd say it's true. Depends on the person about how it affects them, though." Springer's glad that Prime was able to take out Thunderwing back home, and that they didn't have to go through with destroying Cybertron. At least, what was left of it.
And yes, Perceptor. Springer just sent you a friend request on Facebook. His patience with Perceptor's ways isn't the best, but it is better than his counterpart from Perceptor's reality. After all, Perceptor might ramble a bit, but he's damn good at what he does.
Okay, Perceptor rambles a lot, but the point still stands.
"Yeah, when he was around. As did the other Wreckers, though we'd never admit it in public," he says with a half chuckle. He looks to Perceptor, flashing a grin that should look familiar to the scientist.
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Post by Perceptor on Nov 23, 2009 2:28:14 GMT -5
Springer's patience with Perceptor's ways is already much better than his counterpart's from Perceptor's reality. After all, This Springer actually came looking for him, and even initiated a conversation.
The scientist cannot help but to return that grin with one of his own, both in amusement of the humor shared, and in quiet, almost awed, even, acceptance of what Springer is offering.
How odd. Perceptor had confessed his greatest sin, and from that, had expected condemnation, or, at the very least, stilted, but half-hearted at best, courtesy. Instead... not merely empathy, but understanding/ Sympatico.
Companionship.
He finds himself chuckling along as he catches up the remaining high grade and offers Springer a refill.
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