Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 7, 2009 10:26:39 GMT -5
This thread is set at the start of month two (day 33) of Small plots, roughly two weeks after the end of most current threads. It may be assumed that significant progress has been made on the ship-building, but that it has not progressed to above ground as of yet. Open thread.
Containers, both scavenged and custom built abound in this section of the forest. Some are filled with different types of soil and labeled in precisely lettered Cybertronian script. Others contain sprouts and seedlings in various stages of growth. A few even contain young saplings, trees which Botanica will encourage to full growth once they are settled aboard their ship. All around is color, the brilliant greens of jungle plants, the vibrant reds, purples, and yellows of flowering varieties. In still another area lies carefully gathered piles of deadwood and compost, some littered with moss and fungi.
Taking just plants is possible, yes, but even with meticulous hand-pollinating, survival of some of these species in such conditions would be iffy. To that end, she has also been studying the native insects, using both observation and her link with the plants to determine the most important. She has successfully manged a small apiary, and is currently busily tending to it.
"It is a start," she mutters to herself, "I'll likely not be able to take larger pollinators and seed-carriers, like rodents and birds." Though if she can persuade command to allow it, she will. Maybe with a few adjustments to the door locks and decontamination area.... She's lost in thought and in her work, and even a Dinobot could sneak up on her now.
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 7, 2009 11:20:50 GMT -5
"I do not see why not," Perceptor observes from where he has been watching not far off. He is not exactly a paragon of grace and stealth, but he is certainly quieter than a Dinobot!
"Some simple precautions engineered into the ventilation systems, and perhaps a dual air-lock to contain any wandering explorers... I should think that it would pose a significantly greater challenge to contain the smaller creatures who would easily escape most individual's notice than the larger. Hmm... Perhaps an air dam for the doorway into the airlock, and a positive pressure system for the airlock itself... Something non-invasive and not harmful to delicate insects..."
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 8, 2009 10:04:43 GMT -5
Botanica straightens suddenly and lets out a sharp, "Oh!" She didn't know she had company!
She turns to face Perceptor, a very amused smile on her face. "I was just thinking the same, Perceptor. The plans I gave Mayday did include such a system, but it is specifically tailored to the insects. The ventilation for the atrium itself will be self-contained, so there's no worry about finding flies in our energon. But other creatures can be a bit more...creative and destructive."
"Especially rodents." she adds, with some authority.
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 8, 2009 12:02:52 GMT -5
"My apologies, Botanica," Perceptor apologizes immediately. "I did not intend to startle you."
"I must confess that I am incredibly grateful to you for insisting upon this addition to our transport, as I have not had nearly enough of an opportunity to study this world's ecology as I would have preferred," he explains as he crosses over to stand closer, his gaze roving over the nearest containers appreciatively. Between repairs and building and running for their lives and battles, there just hasn't been enough time for a scientist to just... go be a scientist. Perhaps he should remedy that once he is done here. "It would please me greatly if I could assist you in any manner with your endeavor."
Perceptor considers her comments - and, alas, he is not at all familiar with Botanica's... history... with rodents, or else she might have received a wry little grin there - thoughtfully for a long moment. "A wise precaution, isolating the ventilation system. Our systems and quarters can withstand a purge to full vacuum quite admirably, in case of an accident, however..." he pauses, glancing significantly around at the vegetation.
"Terran rodents have a particular fondness for chewing, and special adaptations which require them to do so regularly," he muses, chin dropping into one hand as he ponders the problem. "Perhaps a secondary shielding system embedded in the walls of your atrium... a mesh which is capable of delivering a mild, corrective electrical shock if impinged upon?"
"If all else fails, I can easily construct you analog creatures to take the place of anything you wish," he adds. "Such constructs can be programmed to respect certain boundaries to contain them... I would, however, prefer to intrude as little as possible upon your biosphere's self-reliability with mechanical interventions. Clever programming is simply that: programming. It is exceedingly difficult to accurately condense millions of years of evolution into a few lines of code, no matter how cleverly they are constructed to mimic. Such creatures are still only mimics. A useful last resort and an option to consider, but..." Perceptor shakes his head and begins to pace, and unlike certain Dinobots, he is careful where he places his feet in regards to the life around him.
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 8, 2009 21:41:36 GMT -5
Botanica quirks a smile as Perceptor, well, geeks at her for a few minutes. She doesn't interrupt though; she's been known to go off on a tangent, herself. Her gaze grows a bit more serious when Perceptor suggests creating mechanical analogs. She had not considered such, mainly because in her mind such was not an option.
"I...appreciate the offer, Perceptor, but I would prefer to do without rather than introduce analog replacements. You see, while we can copy the behaviors and functions with programing, we can not allow for one of the most vital parts of Nature: change. The species I take along will evolve along a different path than their relatives here, and their associated fauna should be able to evolve as well. After all, an ecosystem can only sustain itself without change for so long before it begins to devour itself. And we do not know how long we will be traveling."
"The hearts will be the same, though, and that is the important part," she adds, mostly to herself.
She turns back to the area of the apiary where she was working and picks up her datapad, "An embedded security wall is an idea. Microchip-tagging the creatures to allow for tracking is a must...perhaps a feedback system of sorts could be incorporated in the tags, an 'invisible fence' as it were...." She trails off as she makes a few notations. After a minute she looks back up at Perceptor.
"I'm glad to hear someone else enjoys my work, and even encourages it. Most seem to think it an..unnecessary thing. It isn't. Not for me, at least."
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 8, 2009 21:56:09 GMT -5
Perceptor considers her reasoning and nods, at once understanding the dilemma. "True. Very true. It would, theoretically, be possible to develop truly living mechanical organisms that would eventually have the ability to evolve as well," he muses, but shakes his head. "However, by the very nature of their different physiologies - organic versus mechanical - it would be nearly impossible to develop them in such a manner as to have their various evolutionary adaptations synchronize sufficiently to assist a balanced and cohesive, self-sustaining ecosystem."
"No, I agree. Better to find a means to incorporate the appropriate organisms from this ecosystem than anything else. I am not certain that micro-chipping would be the answer, however."
"Such an invasive and active process will require a significant investment of time and attention to maintain. Constant intervention to keep offspring appropriately tagged and tracked." Again he shakes his head and pauses in his pacing to watch her work. "I do not doubt your ability to maintain such work, however, the invasive nature of the procedures will alter the very ecosystem which you will be creating. I would be concerned for the stress inflicted upon the various organisms, as well. Granted, such stress may assist in maintaining a more robust species, it is a... hmmm... steep price to pay for such small gains in the long run. And, some species re simply not adaptable to such continual external stressors."
"Perhaps for very large organisms, the idea may have merit, however... I strongly believe that a significantly more passive system aimed toward non-intervention is a better choice," he remarks thoughtfully, before suddenly coming back to himself and cocking his head at her, as if he'd just processed the rest of her comments.
Not entirely unlikely, that.
"It is necessary?" he asks, curious.
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 8, 2009 22:42:00 GMT -5
She looks confusedly at her companion as he rambles on about the micro-chipping and its drawbacks. What is he...oh! One hand comes up to hide a small laugh as she shakes her head.
"No, no, Perceptor, please, what do you take me for? A neophyte? I would never do something so...messy."
A few more taps on the datapad, and then she hands it over to him. "I've been working on technorganic nanites which mimic the behavior and qualities of parasitic-symbiotic organisms native to the fauna here. They are working perfectly in simulation, but I wish to expand the selection so as to provide a more random and accurate 'infection' as it were. Once the biosphere is filled and sealed, I need only release the nanites into the ventilation and in short order all the creatures will be tagged, so to speak."
"I'd like to include programming to keep them from clustering on a creature. I don't want more than one sampling group on any one subject."
She pauses to give Perceptor time to review her notes, moving over to inspect a flourishing rose variant. A sad and...wistful note creeps into her voice as she adds, "And yes. For me, it is necessary. Unless I chose to stay behind, and I can not in good conscious deprive the group of a skilled engineer, when we've no idea what the universe holds, now could I?"
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 8, 2009 23:39:25 GMT -5
"Ah! Of course! Nanites!" Perceptor exclaims as he accepts the pad an eagerly begins devouring the information upon it. "I was not aware that you had such technologies," he adds absently.
Utterly fascinating. The integration of biology and technology is seamless and almost a work of art. At least it is a work of art to Perceptor. On the small scale, that is. He is still not very... err... fond, so to speak, of the thought of doing something similar to himself. He rather enjoys being exactly what he is. Not that he has any issue with Botanica or Rattrap at all, merely that a similar reformatting of his own systems does not appeal at this time for himself.
"Self-replicating, as well. Quite ingenious to engineer in those systems while utilizing only materials easily extracted from the host organisms. In such small quantities, the hosts will suffer no adverse response, and any organic offspring would easily be absorbed into the system by the nanites' creations."
"Quite adaptable," he compliments as he finally glances back up and steps over to offer her datapad back.
"I agree that it would be much more advantageous to maintain your presence with us, yes," he agrees, and ducks his head a little to one side as he examines a vine climbing its way up a tree beside him. "A mind of your caliber would be a tragic waste to leave languishing behind, ahem. In light of all of the, ah... intriguing challenges which have yet to be addressed."
Why, yes, Perceptor is almost nervously scuffing one foot against the ground as he glances back at Botanica. It's rare for him to find another brilliant mind, and reviewing Botanica's notes, it is quite clear that while he has some extraordinary skills and experience with most various forms of biology/xeno-biology, that there is still a significant amount that he could learn from Botanica, if she were so inclined to teach him.
And, really, what better lure is there to a scientist than the siren's song of knowledge and experience?
He manages to stifle his burgeoning bashfulness, however, to study her for a moment. "Necessary... You require immersion in a vital ecosystem to maintain your functions, then?" he theorizes.
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 9, 2009 9:28:17 GMT -5
"Mmm, yes, self-sustaining, self-replicating, with a natural life cycle which follows that of the parasites they mimic. As stated, they work in simulation, and if I use my own base material for the initial construction, I should be able to maintain a constant link with them as I do the plants themselves. This will allow me to control their numbers as well. Nanites can easy take over a host and evolve into something not quite pleasant if not watched properly."
Botanica sighs, "Of course, the work will be for naught if I can't convince Rodimus and Xaaron to allow me to bring along such creatures." A slight smile. "For that matter, I haven't run the insects by them at all. Better to ask forgiveness than permission, and all that."
She has not really noticed Perceptor's sudden bout of shyness, and even if she did, would not guess as to the cause. Botanica has gotten rather used to being the outsider here. Oh, there's Jazz, of course, who seems to appreciate her, but even he's seldom around anymore. Rattrap avoids her like the plague- a fact which bothers her less and less as each day goes by, oddly enough.
"You are too kind," she murmurs distractedly, reaching out with one hand to take back her datapad, her other three are busy examining the stalks and thorns of the climbing rose which had captured her attention. Something is off about it. It looks healthy but....
"You could say that," she finally answers his last question, "It is...a bit more involved, actually." Botanica has made a point not to broadcast her bond with the planet. Command-or at least Rodimus- knows, as does First Aid...she hasn't even told Wedge. "But yes. That is part of why I spent so little time below while I was healing. The lighting was not yet adjusted to the proper type."
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 10, 2009 14:38:46 GMT -5
Perceptor frowns. "Without the insects, the plants will not flourish properly. There will be no balance, no ecosystem," he observes with all of the pickiness of a scientists who does not perform talks merely by half-measures. "If your report is not sufficient, then I will be pleased to submit substantiative evidence from multiple worlds I have observed."
"If it were merely a case of requiring the appropriate spectrum of lighting, then once said lighting had been achieved, it would have been safer for you to - forgive the unintentional pun - plant yourself, so to speak, in a properly lit alcove down below. You still, however, do not spend more time below than you must, I have noticed, ergo, there is more to your needs than simple lighting, yes?" he asks, but then does not wait for an answer before continuing, his voice taking on... snappish, cross overtones.
"You are clearly not attempting to simply transport a few specimens for amusement, but to create a supportive and vital environment for the maintinence of your own functions, and an environment is not a few dozen plants in pots." Obviously, he is unimpressed by the thought that there might be objections to her request. "An environment is a self-sustaining biosphere which requires fauna as well as flora, macro-organisms as well as micro, in order to maintain equalibrium."
He is also quite clearly prepared to simply dismiss any objections they might have to the addition of the insect and animal life for Botanica's atrium. After all, any such objections would have to be... unscientific.
"The best solution," he adds, his frown turning thoughtful and voice settling once again, "is to anticipate their probable arguments and concerns, and plan countermeasures to render them moot. Your nanites, the isolated ventilation, as complex an airlock system as they would require... Perhaps passive restraint and defenses from the exterior as well as from the interior, to prevent any external organisms of either biological or mechanical nature from attempting to access the biosphere... Hmm..."
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 10, 2009 20:31:17 GMT -5
"I do not have a problem existing below ground for extended periods of time. Until Primal finally defeated Megatron, the tunnels and caverns beneath Cybertron were our refuge," she refutes, voice sounding as if comes from a distance. She isn't entirely present at the moment. "But I do prefer the feel of fresh air over recycled, rainwater over purified, true sun over...ah! that's the problem!"
She moves quickly over to a workbench littered with various tools and containers. She adds some pinches of material from several of the containers to a mortar and begins grinding them with a pestle. "If you could, please....I need one full scoop from the container marked Loam and twice that amount from the one marked Blended Compost. Thank you."
"As for the atrium itself: I've every intention of keeping access restricted, at least until the ecosystem stabilizes. Even after that, certain parties should not be allowed within without escort- if at all." She adds a small handful of dead insects to her mix and continues pounding. She looks up, "I want others to enjoy the atrium, truly I do. However, it will be extremely delicate for some time."
Hopefully, Percepter will be totally fascinated by what Botanica is doing, and not press for more details about just why she needs a viable ecosystem in space.
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 12, 2009 14:01:36 GMT -5
"Yes, I agree. Rambunctious Dinobots are a hazard even on an entire world, much less an enclosed biosphere," Perceptor observes wryly. "I hope that I can prove my... sensitivity enough to be granted access, however." Yes, hopeful scientist is hopeful.
Perceptor observes, utterly fascinated to watch Botanica in her element. He keeps glancing back as he fetches the materials she has requested, intrigued that she performs this compounding by hand rather than resorting to any mechanical means to do so.
Granted, they are not swimming in technology enough to waste parts on useless bits that can easily be done by hand or other means, however, he has the suspicion that even if such means were abundant enough that she could have any electronic machines she wished, that this process would still be done in a manual manner.
"Do your hands possess sensors to assist you in evaluating the materials?" he asks. "Or do you simply enjoy the tactile stimulation of handling the materials yourself?"
Luckily for Botanica, Perceptor doesn't seem to be curious about why she needs that viable ecosystem in space. Perhaps he's forgotten already, distracted by her working.
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Post by Rodimus Prime on Apr 12, 2009 17:12:51 GMT -5
Rodimus, of course, already knows why, but he's inclined to keep that to himself. It's Botanica's business if that news is to get around.
The young Prime is making a tour of the various space ship construction sub-sites, and in a manner of speaking, this area counts as one, and so it is that his heavy footfalls can be heard through the forest before the large figure can be seen. Sorry, Botanica, but grass-stomping is pretty unavoidable for many creatures, not just giant robots. He arrives in time to catch Perceptor's question, and doesn't yet speak, waiting to hear the answer first, though if any stop to look at him they'll be greeted by one of his warmer smiles.
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Shanodin
Major
The Chamberlain, Her Chivalrous Immensity, Lady Botanica. The Unyielding Vanquisher of Weed Killer
This is NOT her field of dreams
Posts: 700
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Post by Shanodin on Apr 12, 2009 23:48:58 GMT -5
"Hmph. I doubt you need to worry over that, Perceptor," Botanica counters as she continues working, giving the other scientist a nod of thanks for fetching her materials. She adds those, plus the blended mixture to a large bowl and begins to airate it with one pair of hands. "You are meticulous enough, from what I've seen. For that matter, I was going to ask...," she trails off, head tilting to one side as she listens- and not just to the footfalls coming their way. She smiles as she realizes who is coming to visit.
"...if you would be willing to assist with the initial setup, once we are to that stage," she continues.
"And no, I've not any special sensors in my hands. It is simply the way it is done. How to explain it...." The fingers of one hand tap her chin. "Aside from the fact that mechanical means can not always ensure the proper consistencies of all individual aspects, there is something much more...satisfying about remaining so connected. More intimate. It was like that for me even before my change."
"Steel and wire, circuit and bolt, all can be used by us to create life after a fashion. And such creations may be granted true life, if Primus or Sigma grant it, life that can last eons. This," she spreads her hands, head turning to fix a welcoming- if slightly sad- smile on Rodimus, "All of this will live and die in what may seem to our kind as the blink of an eye. But from death comes life, new shoots sprouting from the corpse of the old."
"I give a little of myself to the now, and so ensure my existence in the future," she finishes, picking up the bowl and waking over to the rose she had examined earlier.
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Post by Perceptor on Apr 15, 2009 13:00:33 GMT -5
Oooo! Perceptor gets to assist! That pleases him just fine, thank you very much. If he were a more sardonic mechanism, he might be inclined to smirk a little over that "meticulous enough," comment; has Botanica ever caught him recasting an entire circuit board because of a .075 micron error in the tin pathways fused onto the silicon before? While soundly scolding the offending bit of tin for having the audacity to exist solely to impede the optimal flow of electrons along its pathways, even. Out loud. As if it could understand him and/or respond.
Perceptor gets rather... involved in his work.
Perhaps this is why he merely nods to the rest of her explanation. "Yes," he murmurs, smiling softly. "I find that my work goes much more smoothly when I retain that... contact. Additionally, I have found that the variance tolerances for most standard equipment utilized by other individuals in my fields lacks the appropriate level of precision that I demand."
There's "meticulous", and then there's Perceptor.
It doesn't hurt that Perceptor is also such an inquisitive mechanism. A mass spectrometer can certainly tell him the exact molecular make-up of a sample, but that mass spec cannot tell him how it feels. Or smells. Or even tastes, sometimes, and Perceptor wants to know. He wants to know everything, or at least as much as he can cram into his processors and databanks before they burst at the seams.
Yes, Botanica, he very much understands.
"True life? Or true sapience? We already possess the capability to create true life," he disagrees. "The creatures I offered to create for you would not be mere placeholders, but functional, sustainable cybernetic organisms. They would not, however, be sapient."
"Your trees, for example, were not granted sapience by Primus or Sigma, however I doubt that you do not consider them truly alive?" He pauses and then shakes his head, waving one hand dismissively. "However, I do understand your point. My apologies; I divert myself with semantical sophistry."
Her final comment, however, makes him pause. She seems to be indicating that she is actually participating in this ecology, not merely as an assistant, observer, and caretaker, but as a link, an element, a piece of the chain of life itself. Not just the technician who cares for the circuit, but as much a part of the circuit as the silicon and tin itself are. Integral and interwoven, and he is actually framing the questions in his processor to ask about just how connected she truly is, and why, exactly, she "requires" a fully viable ecosystem on board the ship, when he finally notices that they are no longer alone.
"Ah, greetings Rodimus Prime," he chirps cheerfully, saving his questions for later when they have more privacy.
Sorry, Botanica. Guess he hasn't forgotten after all.
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