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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 21, 2011 22:01:20 GMT -5
Before Sentinel launches into his platform, Elita hops up and gets him another cube. Once seated again, she nods at some moments, purses her lips at others, and then flat out frowns a couple of times.
"But if the Decepticons have started moving against Autobots- any Autobots, regardless of where they are, then that should reactivate their status as war criminals," Elita leans back in her chair and sips from her cube, "The protocols regarding such procedure are clearly laid out in Appendix C of of the Allspark Almanac Edition MCMXCIX, which- oh"
"That's in the restricted section of the archives, with most of the unedited Great War stuff. You, um, probably haven't read that." She isn't supposed to have read it either.
This time the sip she takes is more like a gulp, "So why change the experimentation ethics?"
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 22, 2011 15:53:04 GMT -5
Sentinel Prime especially takes note of where she's frowning - note to self, revise his phrasing there. He wets his whistle with the second cube and then launches back into it. "'The Decepticons'. You're assuming they're acting as one group with one goal. It'd be a nice, easy thing to sell to the populace that they are. However, we don't know that. If the New Kaon Decepticons are acting against us, yes, that voids their amnesty, although we can't put them in double jeopardy for past crimes, we can only charge them for what they've done since, but what if the Ijurn Decepticons had nothing to do with it?"
"If we tar them with the same brush, we could make more enemies than we necessarily have to, but it'll be hard to convince an Autobot population baying for spilled fuel, because we do think of Decepticons as a monoclonal stand as opposed to a diverse group with different hopes, dreams, and goals."
Sentinel Prime feels so dirty saying all this, you have no idea, but he's always been fond of arguing The Fallen's advocate, out of his natural stubbornness. Only his recent talks with Botanica have taught him that any viewpoint can be a weapon, and if he can argue multiple viewpoints, that's more daggers Sentinel Prime can stab into backs. He doesn't have to believe what he's saying; he just has to argue it convincing and coherently, if it suits his purposes.
"And by the way, sweetie, yes, I have read that. I'm little more curious where you found the clearance to do so?" Sentinel Prime leans over a bit, optics narrowed. When Sentinel Prime wasn't out oppressing the populace, forcing little old ladies to cross the road, and generally being a huge jerk, he studied up on how to be an even bigger jerk by reading whatever it is he needed to know in Fortress Maximus! Mostly legal codices, so he can hammer 'bots with them but have wiggle-room and outs for himself.
But then, little Cadet Sentinel was generally more interested in get-famous-quick schemes than in cozying himself up a rulebook to keep himself warm at night.
Sentinel Prime sits back and looks away. "The research ethics? Mostly that we pay lip service to ours?"
Sure, his Perceptor will brag about having something Scalpel doesn't: ethics, but in practise? Pssh, yeah, whatever. And his Perceptor is at the top. He is the role model, the eidolon. Who knows what some of the science peons are getting up to!
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 23, 2011 11:47:51 GMT -5
Elita takes another sip of her cube, then says, "A Decepticon is a Decepticon. We've left procedures in place for any group to re-apply for citizenship or pardon. Any exile who truly is not working contratyr to the well being of the Autobot civilization need only come forward and declare themselves, go through the application process. Even if those procedures do ultimately leave them as less than the lowest class member in status." The last is said a bit bitterly.
"You're points are solid, but that's what would be brought against you. Thousands of years of propaganda and conditioning of the populace. That leaves you with the choice of ignoring the Decepticon presence or taking a scorched earth approach."
She smirks, "As for clearance, you forget, I was being cultivated as a researcher. The headbot in the Archives likes me, think I have promise. And really, those security-coded badges are easy to crack."
Cocking her head to one side, she studies Sentinel for several moments. Finally, Elita says, "Sentinel, you could give a turborat's aft about ethics and truth both then and now. Why do you care about what the scientists do to folks now? Thinking about how Blackarachnia has a point, that if she'd come back to Cybertron, she'd have wound up vivisected and base for some new superweapon?"
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 23, 2011 12:08:50 GMT -5
"Oh yes. I know," Sentinel Prime agrees, grinning unkindly, when Elita-1 tells him what would be said to him.
"We stigmatised them before the war with the Decepticon Registration Act," Sentinel Prime counter-points. He supported that Act when they argued it in school. Vociferously. He probably still supports it out of stubbornness if nothing else; he hasn't really re-examined his thoughts on the matter. "Would you really want to join the folks who killed your friends," Decepticons have friends, right? "deprived you of your reproductive rights," by denying everyone use of the AllSpark, "kicked you out of your homes," Cybertron was their home, too, "and won't even let you visit? Yeah. No thanks."
"Grand Central Space Station's likely to treat a Decepticon better than we Autobots are!" and Grand Central Space Station is notoriously robophobic, "And we're the same species."
Oh nepotism. What a double-edged sword. Sentinel Prime wouldn't have gotten where he was if not for it; he owes it that much. Yet Sentinel Prime hates what meager condolences nepotism bequeathed upon Optimus. He should have known that was behind Elita-1's overly high file clearances.
That and cracking security badges. They were such hellions and goof-bots then, weren't they?
Of course Elita-1 makes it all about her, assuming that this is about Blackarachnia. Granted, it would have to take someone he's close to for Sentinel Prime to even start thinking about it; she's right on that account. He chooses not to enlighten her further, arguing, "You sure I don't? But yeah, maybe she does." Blackarachnia totally does. "Fear of her own government made her an enemy of it. That's rather counterproductive, don't you think? I think people shouldn't have to live in fear that, if something terrible happens to them, the government will make it worse in the name of science."
Like turning into a horrible spider.
Like a refinery explosion.
Or, in the case of the Supremes, the 'something terrible' would be 'being created at all'.
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 24, 2011 10:36:16 GMT -5
"All you've ever cared about it following the letter of the law, Sentinel," Elita says, sounding oddly serious, "The spirit of it never mattered, so long as it benefited you."
"Not", she adds, "that I'm much better. Optimus was always our Jimmy the Sonic Cricket."
She brings her cube up in front of her face and swirls it, intently watching the pink liquid as it flows.
"Those kids- Jetfire and Jetstorm. They were one of his experiments, weren't they? Autobots don't usually fly."
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 24, 2011 14:04:28 GMT -5
"They aren't contradictory concepts," Sentinel Prime says quietly. He can consider ethical correctness important while also being a self-serving wretch. Just because he wants the best for himself doesn't mean he has to make others suffer on the path to his goal. He adds, smirking, "And I don't want to be my Ultra Magnus. I just want his job."
There are times Sentinel Prime did want to be like him or be him, but not right now. Ethical ambiguity gives him a headache for being so... wishy-washy.
He deadpans, "Autobots don't fly. Period. But they're Autobots. And they fly. It's a funny thing, isn't it? They're the wave of the future. How does it feel, to be so young and already obsolete?" There's a sour note in his tone, a dark twist to his expression.
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 24, 2011 15:25:15 GMT -5
Elita smiles sadly as Sentinel declares the concepts non-contradictory, "I never said they were."
"'The wave of the future'," she mimics, "They fly, and have decidedly offensive powers. They can combine into something which the general populace would consider too dangerous to be allowed out without a leash."
"Oh Sentinel, how does it feel for you to have to face the fact the glorious ideal to which you aspired, that the great and wonderful Autobot machine is no better than those we slander?"
If Sentinel wants to keep her at arms length, if he wants to treat her as no different than any other "buddy," why should she waste time pretending to innocence anymore?
"Tell me about the twins. How they came about*," she says.
*I am perfectly fine with a gloss over here. After all, Sentinel has told this store more than once, and um, I know it too!
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 24, 2011 17:47:41 GMT -5
"It means I'll be in work for a long, long time," Sentinel Prime insists, smirking. "But we are different, and the difference is in our people. The common citizens. The average Autobot is a product of his society. The average Decepticon produces his society."
Most Animated Autobots - the Trackses and Flareups and whatnot - are really all right. Sure, they're terrified of organics, but that was imposed on them by their society. It isn't intrinsic.
Decepticons create their culture of conquest, backstabbing, violence, and paranoia, because that is what they are.
Actually, Sentinel Prime isn't sure what to feel about the corruption. Vindicated? Justified? Disgusted? Jaded?
He shrugs and explains, "As of my pull point, the general populace didn't know they existed. Not sure how we were going to explain them. I suppose as a triumph of Autobot engineering. Which they are."
No, Sentinel Prime is not going into the details with her, if he doesn't have to.
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 24, 2011 21:44:18 GMT -5
"Mmmhmmm."
"No," Elita contradicts emphatically.
"That 'product of our society' bit is refinery slag. The AllSpark gave us all freewill. Autobot and Decepticon. Trying to say that we're better than them just because our government tricks people into being pansies instead of acknowledging why we, a peaceful society, need something like oh, the military is splitting wires a bit too thin."
"But that's a long standing argument."
She take a long drag from her cube and wipes her mouth with the back of her hand. See, totally one of the guys.
"So, they volunteered to become flyboys? Or they got volunteered?"
It's a shot in the dark, but that doesn't make it a blind shot.
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 24, 2011 21:58:26 GMT -5
"No," Sentinel Prime argues, "The average Autobot doesn't want make nations kneel. Or fight tooth and nail for a place in the hierarchy. Or steal for a living. Or even pummel another of his own species into the ground just to watch him die. We're content to live in a society where we play nice with each other for the most part. The right to extend my fist ends before your face starts. Autobots are societal insiders by choice, by taking the choice that most don't even know is a choice and remaining Autobots. Decepticons are societal outsiders, because they see that choice for the choice it is and, in rejecting the baseline Cybertronian society, create their own."
"Maybe it's not a good thing to live an unexamined life, but to examine your life and conclude that you'd like to dedicate yours to ending others is a bad thing. Naivete is no virtue, but maliciousness is a sin."
It's sort of how 0 is greater than -10.
Sentinel Prime arches an optical ridge and asks, "What makes you think they weren't built as they are from the first? "
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 25, 2011 11:19:48 GMT -5
"And you've polled a mixed sampling of Decepticons to determine that is the average mindset?" Elita asks softly, fixing Sentinel with an intent gaze, "Perhaps they, like many of the Autobots here, simply fight because they feel that they act for the betterment of their world and society."
"You're still spouting off the party line. We have to believe that they are inherently 'bad' and we are inherently 'good' in order to maintain our sense of moral superiority."
She leans forward and rests her crossed arms on the table, "In some of the realities represented here, the Decepticons were formed in opposition to a corrupt Autobot regime. Yes, it devolved into power struggles as time when on, but they were no more or less a Cybertronian than you or I. They started with good intentions. So who is acting the best interest of society? What makes them so much less?"
Then Elita smiles and laughs, "Serious talk, serious points, and I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. But if you're going to head up a diplomacy squad, you're going to have to be able to argue both the popular and unpopular points of an issue, if it means keeping peace."
"As for the twins- call it a hunch. You care about them a lot, and now have issues with experimentation ethics. It's a logical conclusion."
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 25, 2011 12:00:38 GMT -5
Some characters, at this point, would be having steamy angry hate sex by now. Not Sentinel Prime. His fail is so great that he ends up arguing a point he doesn't even believe instead of getting shoved against a wall and someone else's paint gouged into him.
"I'm not talking about here," Sentinel Prime corrects, holding up a finger, "I'm talking about the Decepticons back home, the ones who registered as Decepticons. Putting yourself out for your beliefs like that is not easy, and it takes a conscious choice. Doing nothing is easy."
"Here, I'm sure a lot of them were made Decepticons from the first and have never examined their options, like most Autobots back home." Sentinel Prime shrugs. So dirty, he feels. He will never be clean.
"Generally speaking, I'd say it was their means, not their ends." Sentinel Prime is big on means. He feels they are more important than ends. Doing something the right way is more important to him than doing the right thing.
"And yeah. What? You think I believe a thing I've been saying?" Sentinel Prime believes a few things he's said, but not many of them! Speaking of, he argues, "I could also just be jealous that our Ultra Magnus is loaded with top-of-the-line experimental modifications, and I'm not."
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 26, 2011 20:45:27 GMT -5
Elita smirks, then giggles, "And you think I believe everything I've been saying? I'm smart enough to know that the minute I said I was going out for the Guard, you started evaluating me." Her expression sobers.
"It's what I do best you know. Sway people."
"And you could just be jealous. It just doesn't read that way to me, and I'm pretty good at reading you," she says, though she doesn't pursue the question further. She can just ask the twins themselves, after all.
"So, you still think I shouldn't go back?"
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Post by Sentinel Prime on Apr 26, 2011 21:13:54 GMT -5
"I think you believe something you've said," Sentinel Prime says mildly, like Bugs Bunny trying to catch Daffy Duck in an arguement.
Sentinel Prime would say that Elita-1 has more impressive assets than being able to sway people, but she catches him out with her question. That is a hard question! He squirms and finally says, "That was wrong of me to say." He has to recover some oozing ego and abrasiveness! "But you know what they say... good girls go to the AllSpark. Bad girls go everywhere."
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Post by Elita-1 on Apr 28, 2011 11:27:49 GMT -5
Elita just smirks. Sure, she believes some of what she said, just like Sentinel believes some of what he says.
But on to serious conversation.
"Was it really?," she asks when Sentinel admits to being in the wrong, "You didn't want me to go back and become... that. At least you care- cared- enough about me to admit it."
"I plan on going back. One day. But until then I'll go as far as I can, see as much as I can."
She takes a sip of her drink and says, rather offhandedly, "You didn't answer the question."
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